Hi,
I'd like to call to your attention an article I've just posted on the FSFE's website.
https://www.fsfe.org/en/fellows/modulus/user_driven_software_development
It's a proposal for an organization that would help users and SMEs to pool resources and risk so that they could collectively commission the improvements to free software that they need. Incidentally, it might also help free software writers to get contracts. I think it is a potentially good idea, but I've gotten some negative feedback about it on the #gnu channel at freenode. I'd like to know if I am in the wrong track with this.
--David.
David Picón Álvarez eleuteri@myrealbox.com wrote:
I'd like to call to your attention an article I've just posted on the FSFE's website. https://www.fsfe.org/en/fellows/modulus/user_driven_software_development
Interesting. Can you open comments to non-fellows or link to this thread, please?
Stylistically, bolding/emlarging the headings and making the paragraphs shorter would work better on the web IMO.
Best wishes,
From: "MJ Ray" mjr@phonecoop.coop
Interesting. Can you open comments to non-fellows or link to this thread, please?
Hmm, the comments for non-fellows is an FSFE website issue. It's out of my hands, as far as I know. As to linking to this thread, do you mean linking to the mailing list?
--David. PS I'll see if I can easily edit the headings.
David Picón Álvarez eleuteri@myrealbox.com wrote:
Hmm, the comments for non-fellows is an FSFE website issue. It's out of my hands, as far as I know.
Can't you, as a fellow, persuade them to fix that bug?
More immediately, you could post your essay somewhere that allows everyone to submit comments, unless you only want FSFE fellow comments.
As to linking to this thread, do you mean linking to the mailing list?
I mean link to one of http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/discussion/2007-November/007470.html http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.org.fsf.europe.discussion/2203 - I'd prefer the second, as it looks better and won't break the thread at the end of today like the first does.
Hope that helps,
From: "MJ Ray" mjr@phonecoop.coop
Can't you, as a fellow, persuade them to fix that bug?
I doubt it.
More immediately, you could post your essay somewhere that allows everyone to submit comments, unless you only want FSFE fellow comments.
As a matter of fact I'd like all kinds of comments, since I may not have thought this through well. I'll see if I can put this up somewhere where it can be commented by random readers.
--David.
Am Freitag, den 30.11.2007, 14:56 +0000 schrieb MJ Ray:
Hmm, the comments for non-fellows is an FSFE website issue. It's out of my hands, as far as I know.
Can't you, as a fellow, persuade them to fix that bug?
We had comments for non-fellows open in the beginning, and we got serious spam problems. We limited the possibility to comment to registered Fellows as a temporary short-term fix, and a good(tm) solution for this is on our todo list.
Thanks, Reinhard
MJ Ray mjr@phonecoop.coop writes:
David Picón Álvarez eleuteri@myrealbox.com wrote:
Hmm, the comments for non-fellows is an FSFE website issue. It's out of my hands, as far as I know.
Can't you, as a fellow, persuade them to fix that bug?
At the moment it's not that easy to allow comments for everyone without opening the door for a lot of spam. But we are working on a major upgrade of the fellowship portal and i hope this will also make it possible to allow comments from non-fellows.
best wishes, Bjoern
From: "MJ Ray" mjr@phonecoop.coop
More immediately, you could post your essay somewhere that allows everyone to submit comments, unless you only want FSFE fellow comments.
Right, I've made a comment to the article on FSFE with a link to my own weblog where comments are open. The link is http://www.elitism.info/journal/texts/2007/11/30/211/a-proposal-for-user-dri... Also linked the thread, as suggested.
I've gotten some further ideas from the #gnu irc channel and people on this list, so I'll try to write down a summary tomorrow.
--David.
On Sat, Dec 01, 2007 at 03:31:53AM +0100, David Picón Álvarez wrote:
From: "MJ Ray" mjr@phonecoop.coop
More immediately, you could post your essay somewhere that allows everyone to submit comments, unless you only want FSFE fellow comments.
Right, I've made a comment to the article on FSFE with a link to my own weblog where comments are open. The link is http://www.elitism.info/journal/texts/2007/11/30/211/a-proposal-for-user-dri... Also linked the thread, as suggested.
I just came across the page below and remembered this discussion. At the first glance, it looks quiete similar to David's proposal.
They talk about "open source" though.
Greetings,
Guido
On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 01:19:07PM +0100, David Picón Álvarez wrote:
Hi,
I'd like to call to your attention an article I've just posted on the FSFE's website.
https://www.fsfe.org/en/fellows/modulus/user_driven_software_development
That's an interesting approach. RMS mentions the possibility of founding an organisation for a certain feature or project in a few speeches. What you are suggesting is rather like a marketplace for such "organisations" which makes a lot of sense to me.
Here are just a few thoughts:
1. Pledges should not be binding forever.
Reading your proposal, I don't quite understand when a pledge can be withdrawn.
Let's say I gave in pledge a certain amount for a certain feature in a particular project and since there weren't enough others with me, no programmer was willing to implement the feature. Meanwhile, another project is being developed and comes up with excactly the feature I wanted to see. Then, I would like to have the possibility to withdraw my pledge and invest the money in something that has not been solved yet. If I put my money somewhere, I would like it being used. Which brings me to the next point:
2. Proper investment of asset
Since the users transfer the money to "FUDS" in advance, it might sit there for a long time without being used. Especially when the foundation grows and with it the number of "orphaned" projects, that might accumulate a remarkable amount of money. Any ideas how this idle capital could be used to serve Free Software?
3. offers in both directions
I would also provide programmers the opportunity to offer their services.
Almost every project/program has its mailing list where the users raise their concerns and express their needs. There might be a programmer who has a nice idea how to solve a problem or implement a feature neatly, but has not the time/money to do it. S/he could offer the service on the the platform of FUDS: "I'll fix bug #123 within three weeks for 1200€." and the users could vote for it.
4. Complexity
For most users the complexity or triviality of a particular problem will always stay hidden, because they are not interested in how the problem is solved. They just want it fixed or be done. They want a piece of software that does what they want. And they have no intention in spending a lot of time reading scopes of work, contracts, discussions and contract negotiations.
But they could still participate and support Free Software by paying a monthly contribution to the "FUDS" and their allotment could be assigned proportional to the "established" projects. The definition of "established" needs to be determined, of course. Thus, they would rely on the expertise of the others and trust the system that their money is well invested.
They should still have control over their money. Let's say they commit 120€ per year. If they want to support a particular project, they can pledge 80€ for it. If they don't pledge for anything else, the remaining 40€ will be divided to other projects.
It's a proposal for an organization that would help users and SMEs to pool resources and risk so that they could collectively commission the improvements to free software that they need. Incidentally, it might also help free software writers to get contracts. I think it is a potentially good idea, but I've gotten some negative feedback about it on the #gnu channel at freenode. I'd like to know if I am in the wrong track with this.
What kind of negative feedback did you get?
Greetings,
Guido