Hello, I am the Secretary of the Hellenic Linux Users Group(http://www.hellug.gr/) In an interview given by "Microsoft Hellas S.A."(http://www.microsoft.com/hellas/) CEO(Mr. Christos Tsagkos) at the Hellenic Financial Newspaper Naftemporiki(E-WORKING Manazine, Page 4, Answer to the 4th question - http://www.naftemporiki.gr/%5Bgreek only]), there was an abstract saying, word by word: "Let me start by saying that, according to a recert reasearch by IDC, Windows is the least vulnerable operating system, regarding security issues. The research indicates that there are more than twice number of viruses for Linux than for Windows". I have searched every recent research from IDC but I haven't found that information. What do you advise us to do? We have already contacted IDC and waiting for a response.
Thank you in advance Regards - Giannis Stoilis
On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 09:00, Giannis Stoilis wrote:
Answer to the 4th question - http://www.naftemporiki.gr/%5Bgreek only]), there was an abstract saying, word by word: "Let me start by saying that, according to a recert reasearch by IDC, Windows is the least vulnerable operating system, regarding security issues. The research indicates that there are more than twice number of viruses for Linux than for Windows". I have searched every recent research from IDC but I haven't found that information. What do you advise us to do? We have already contacted IDC and waiting for a response.
Have you tried to contact AntiVirus makers? Maybe even AntiVirus databases...
Rui
Rui Miguel Seabra wrote:
Have you tried to contact AntiVirus makers? Maybe even AntiVirus databases...
According to the symantec database, there are many worms, but I found no viruses. Searching Google reveals that it is still in doubt whether even Linux Viruses exist. As far as I know, there are some(ten?). But in no case can the Linux viruses be more than double the Windows viruses...
- Giannis Stoilis
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Giannis Stoilis wrote:
Rui Miguel Seabra wrote:
Have you tried to contact AntiVirus makers? Maybe even AntiVirus databases...
According to the symantec database, there are many worms, but I found no viruses.
I guessed so as well. I guess you could for example say: "Okay, just point me to one! - and then we talk on Windows viruses." in a public statement.
Such attempts to spread FUD (Fear, Uncertainity and Doubt) are very popular from the side of Microsoft and SCO today, at least there would be no word if MS wouln't feel the threat.
Searching Google reveals that it is still in doubt whether even Linux Viruses exist.
Sounds plausible to me. Maybe, in his argumenation, the word "virus" also includes "worms" but even then, the number would be bad for MS and even if the number would be comparable, the frequency which they show themselfes publically is far higher on Windows.
As far as I know, there are some(ten?). But in no case can the Linux viruses be more than double the Windows viruses...
Me too :)
Maybe someone can complete the MS Vulnerablility story listing on this wiki page:
http://wiki.ael.be/index.php/MsAntitrust
I think it would be good to have a good track of MS vulnerabilies to counter such FUD attacs and have something to point at when MS claims "Trustworthy" computing. Windows should get <i>security</i> first.
I wish the Windows admins a happy monthly patch day (every 2nd wednesday in the month).
The german ministry of Justice already publically stated(at Systems) that a system which mainly consists of patches(she referred to a carpet full of patches for holes) can't be that good and that there must be something wrong on the security design.
Bernhard
PS, from the wiki page above, I like this one:
The bottom-line... The entire Microsoft OS family is flawed by design. The security model is a model of vulnerability.
....and so on....
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Giannis Stoilis wrote:
Hello, I am the Secretary of the Hellenic Linux Users Group(http://www.hellug.gr/) In an interview given by "Microsoft Hellas S.A."(http://www.microsoft.com/hellas/) CEO(Mr. Christos Tsagkos) at the Hellenic Financial Newspaper Naftemporiki(E-WORKING Manazine, Page 4, Answer to the 4th question - http://www.naftemporiki.gr/%5Bgreek only]), there was an abstract saying, word by word: "Let me start by saying that, according to a recert reasearch by IDC, Windows is the least vulnerable operating system, regarding security issues. The research indicates that there are more than twice number of viruses for Linux than for Windows". I have searched every
--^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't know from which world this IDC reseach comes from but on the world which I see, there are tousands of viruses for DOS and Windows and I'd guess at least 100 worms which have spread the world using Windows.
Saying this at a time where quite a number of Microsoft worms are circulating around the world (e.g. one having caused that www.sco.com does not resolve in DNS, because the traffic it causes caused too much traffic on the internet (see http://www.netcraft.com and look for SCO and the MS URL-Spoofing issue and for details) sounds pretty much from another world to me.
More about the worm e.g. at: http://symantec.com/
You can clearly demonstrate to anyone who is able to look at http://www.netcraft.com that Microsoft Worms are causing far more trouble than any Linux worm ever had long ago(I remember only one) so I think you can ask the MS CEO in public article what reseach he refers to...
recent research from IDC but I haven't found that information.
I think he must have confused something, for example at least the number of viruses would be also quite irrelevant today, since worms rule the availability of websites like www.sco.com and the backup site www2.sco.com.
What do you advise us to do? We have already contacted IDC and waiting for a response.
I think this really calls for a counter-article from the Linux User Community sends the statement of the MS CEO into the world of fairy-tales.
I'd hope some greek e-zines would pick it up, and if not I guess it would at least be worth a try to put a short notice on slashdot to show the world on what kind of drugs the Greek MS CEO is at(I wouln't use these words in a newspaper article of course :-)
Maybe you can check the virus/worm database for the number of Windows/Linux worms and invite him to prove his statemtent in an article/outreach.
Just another point: "Windows is the least vulnerable operating system"
There he seems to say that he feels that Windows is more secure than say *BSD and any Securtiy-Enhanced Linux. If I go and look, I see only Windows Virus Software companies and no Linux one, strange...
The Only Linux Virus Software I know filters Windows Viruses out of mails to protect these insecure boxes...
Just my personal opinion from what I see. Bernhard
On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 10:00, Giannis Stoilis wrote:
Hello, I am the Secretary of the Hellenic Linux Users Group(http://www.hellug.gr/) In an interview given by "Microsoft Hellas S.A."(http://www.microsoft.com/hellas/) CEO(Mr. Christos Tsagkos) at the Hellenic Financial Newspaper Naftemporiki(E-WORKING Manazine, Page 4, Answer to the 4th question - http://www.naftemporiki.gr/%5Bgreek only]), there was an abstract saying, word by word: "Let me start by saying that, according to a recert reasearch by IDC, Windows is the least vulnerable operating system, regarding security issues. The research indicates that there are more than twice number of viruses for Linux than for Windows". I have searched every recent research from IDC but I haven't found that information. What do you advise us to do? We have already contacted IDC and waiting for a response.
MS has tryied, many times, saying that Linux have had twice the bugs (not viruses) of windows.
They call them "security problems".
So I think the poor man just got confused and said virus instead of bugs, probably he thinks viruses are the only security problem on the earth :-)
I think you should publicy state the facts as they are, regarding both viruses and bugs found on both platforms.
Simo.
On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 11:00:34AM +0200, Giannis Stoilis wrote:
I am the Secretary of the Hellenic Linux Users Group(http://www.hellug.gr/)
BTW: Do you use anything else then the kernel? :)
In an interview given by "Microsoft Hellas S.A."(http://www.microsoft.com/hellas/) CEO(Mr. Christos Tsagkos) at the Hellenic Financial Newspaper Naftemporiki(E-WORKING Manazine, Page 4, Answer to the 4th question - http://www.naftemporiki.gr/%5Bgreek only]), there was an abstract saying, word by word: "Let me start by saying that, according to a recert reasearch by IDC, Windows is the least vulnerable operating system, regarding security issues. The research indicates that there are more than twice number of viruses for Linux than for Windows". I have searched every recent research from IDC but I haven't found that information. What do you advise us to do? We have already contacted IDC and waiting for a response.
Most people will not trust a study result stated this way. Asking for the results is the right way to do.
Point people to better research, then they can think for themselfs:
David Wheeler http://www.dwheeler.com/oss_fs_why.html#security
Especially:
9. The majority of the most serious security problems only apply to Microsoft's products, and not to OSS/FS products, as suggested by the CERT/CC's "most frequent, high-impact types of security incidents and vulnerabilities" and the ICAT database.
10. Computer viruses are overwhelmingly more prevalent on Windows than any other system.
11. Microsoft has had far more vulnerabilities than anyone else, according to SecurityTracker.
Interesting Quote: "Microsoft's Jim Allchin disclosed under oath in court testimony that some Microsoft code was so flawed it could not be safely disclosed to the public."
Bernhard Reiter wrote: [snip]
Thank you all for your advices and links. I hope this works out ok...
Regards - Giannis Stoilis
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 4 Feb 2004 at 12:43, Bernhard Reiter wrote:
- Computer viruses are overwhelmingly more prevalent on Windows than any other system.
IDC will almost certainly be calculating the rate by dividing the total number of viruses by the total number of installations, reasoning that the more people are using a system then the more viruses will be written for it.
On that metric, I believe Windows is quite a lot less buggy and virus- prone than Linux :) and MacOS X is even less so.
Cheers, Niall
On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 22:17, Niall Douglas wrote:
IDC will almost certainly be calculating the rate by dividing the total number of viruses by the total number of installations, reasoning that the more people are using a system then the more viruses will be written for it.
I've seen an article debunking this mith almost to a mathematical level, proving the number of installations has little to do with virus making and spreading.
Rui