Hello,
What do you think of a so called free software based on Flash ? If it is free, the sources must be given. What about source files written in a proprietary (flash) format ?
At Sun, 21 Nov 2004 01:54:00 +0100, Odile Bénassy wrote:
What do you think of a so called free software based on Flash ? If it is free, the sources must be given. What about source files written in a proprietary (flash) format ?
It seems similar to the java trap: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html
Jeroen Dekkers
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 11:36:45 +0100 Jeroen Dekkers jeroen@dekkers.cx wrote:
At Sun, 21 Nov 2004 01:54:00 +0100, Odile Bénassy wrote:
What do you think of a so called free software based on Flash ? If it is free, the sources must be given. What about source files written in a proprietary (flash) format ?
It seems similar to the java trap: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html
Sure, but not only : any java source code can be edited with a text editor
Sure, but not only : any java source code can be edited with a text editor
Actually, that's not an issue. Source code is correctly defined in the GPL as the preferred form for modification, irrespective of what such form is.
The fact that such software can't be used without running non-free software is an issue, but it doesn't affect the freeness of that copyrighted work. It's like free software packages that only run under Windows or MacOS.
The fact that it cannot be modified with free software is an issue, too but, again, it doesn't affect the legal status of the specific work.
I agree that if such source isn't even readable without non-free tools (because the format is undocumented or whatever) we have a serious issue, but it's about the environment where such work of art is designed to live, not about the status of that specific work.
It is the same as free documentation or free drawings written with proprietary applications. The .doc or .ppt formats aren't really useable in the free world -- I don't care that some companies spent many man-years to be more-or-less able to read them: this is just a very expensive workaround and the situation is still the same as you describe.
/alessandro
On Sun, 2004-11-21 at 11:36, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
At Sun, 21 Nov 2004 01:54:00 +0100, Odile Bénassy wrote:
What do you think of a so called free software based on Flash ? If it is free, the sources must be given. What about source files written in a proprietary (flash) format ?
It seems similar to the java trap: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html
It seem different to me. But can Odile specify better what do you mean by proprietary flash format ?
Is it not publicly available? Is it encumbered by patents? What exactly make it proprietary?
Simo.
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 11:56:44 +0100 Simo Sorce simo.sorce@xsec.it wrote:
On Sun, 2004-11-21 at 11:36, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
At Sun, 21 Nov 2004 01:54:00 +0100, Odile Bénassy wrote:
What do you think of a so called free software based on Flash ? If it is free, the sources must be given. What about source files written in a proprietary (flash) format ?
It seems similar to the java trap: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html
It seem different to me. But can Odile specify better what do you mean by proprietary flash format ?
.fla
« SWF source files:
* com: a directory containing the ActionScript 2.0 code package * shell.fla: the editable master file for shell.swf * preloader.as: a file containing the ActionScript logic included on frame 1 of shell.fla * shell.as: a file containing the ActionScript logic included on frame 2 of shell.fla »
http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mx/flash/articles/vidgal_structure_03.html
Is it not publicly available?
it is a binary format, you need Macromedia « Flash MX 2004 » to edit http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mx/flash/articles/media_behaviors.html
Is it encumbered by patents? What exactly make it proprietary?
Simo.
Simo Sorce - simo.sorce@xsec.it Xsec s.r.l. - http://www.xsec.it via Garofalo, 39 - 20133 - Milano mobile: +39 329 328 7702 tel. +39 02 2953 4143 - fax: +39 02 700 442 399
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 11:56:44 +0100 Simo Sorce simo.sorce@xsec.it wrote:
What exactly make it proprietary?
« Proprietary, not publicly documented. Developed by Macromedia, Inc. » http://www.digitalpreservation.gov/formats/fdd/fdd000132.shtml
On 2004-11-21 00:54:00 +0000 Odile Bénassy obenassy@free.fr wrote:
What do you think of a so called free software based on Flash ? If it is free, the sources must be given. What about source files written in a proprietary (flash) format ?
It is difficult. The SWF format actually seems to be readable, although the official specifications might be under a NDA. Several free software tools can produce SWF - of course, the sources to make those produce a particular flash file is an easy tool.
I thought you didn't usually directly write the flash SWF format, but used some authoring tool which has project source files? If you have a particular case in mind, that may be easier for people to discuss.
Some AFFS supporters have been wrestling with the flash problem and keeping notes at http://www.affs.org.uk/~alex/HowDoWeReplaceFlash which may give you more information.
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 11:36:12 +0000 MJ Ray mjr@dsl.pipex.com wrote:
On 2004-11-21 00:54:00 +0000 Odile Bénassy obenassy@free.fr wrote:
What do you think of a so called free software based on Flash ? If it is free, the sources must be given. What about source files written in a proprietary (flash) format ?
It is difficult. The SWF format actually seems to be readable, although the official specifications might be under a NDA. Several free software tools can produce SWF - of course, the sources to make those produce a particular flash file is an easy tool.
I thought you didn't usually directly write the flash SWF format, but used some authoring tool which has project source files? If you have a particular case in mind, that may be easier for people to discuss.
« Ces sources sont modifiables librement et gratuitement conformément aux termes de la licence <a href="http://fsffrance.org/gpl/gpl.fr.html">GPL</a>. »
http://www.sesamath.net/mathenpoche/index.php?option=telechar&niveau=6
Some AFFS supporters have been wrestling with the flash problem and keeping notes at http://www.affs.org.uk/~alex/HowDoWeReplaceFlash which may give you more information.
ok, thanks
-- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and not of any group I know Creative copyleft computing - http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ Unsolicited attachments to the pipex address deleted Will HLF fund tree-killings? http://www.thewalks.co.uk/
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