Dear All, I am new to the mailing list, I have cut out contact details but it involves libraries in the UK. Let me know if not appropiate.
**********
Dear Andrés
Thanks for this. Basic set up in our libraries is as follows - both staff and public networks are supported by SERCO. They provide:
· hardware and network support
· infrastructure support for e-mail (Exchange/Outlook)
· maintenance for the PCs - fix or replace malfunctioning devices.
· support for the VOIP phone network used by Libraries
· some support for printers on the public and staff networks
The fundamental software setup is based on the same architecture as the council as a whole - PCs currently run Windows XP and Office 2003. The Library management system is provided by Civica. Beyond the basic Microsoft setup we use software from a variety of sources, and have looked at a whole range of software from the proprietary (e.g. Photoshop Elements) to open source (e.g. The Gimp).
The reality is that the ICT resources in libraries and in the Council generally are at full stretch delivering a significant amount of change. Regrettably therefore I don’t think there is any appetite or capacity to engage at this time in any further consideration of open source software.
Thanks for your interest on this though – I hope you enjoyed the opening event as much as I did and that you and others in the community enjoy the fantastic new facilities now that they are properly open.
Regards,
<snip>
From: Andrés Muñiz Piniella
Dear *****,It was nice meeting you at the ***** event.Could you find out what the name of the company that will service the user side of the IT of *******((Public Libraries?From my conversation with Peter Bazalgette there is an 'Envisioning…' report that says open source in council libraries is the way to go but that it was up to Coucils. There is a general goverment push towards this as well, as you commented when we met.I then spoke to some of the techies in IT support for public service and they say they would love to support free (as in freedom not free beer) software on the public facing side, since background servers are already using free-libre open source software (FLOSS) tools. But they are stuck in the status quo. A particular techie said that talking to council to change was a waste of time, that I should talk directly to the support company. I do not think this is true, since the council is the client and the client is always right (if given a choice).Of course, general public is not going to request a shift from a particular american closed source company to one of the british FLOSS companies because they do not know there are options, consecuences of being in a sponsored monopoly for so long! That is why I hold workshops where I help neighbours using only FLOSS tech.Let me know if I am taking the wrong approach. And if you can help me contact your support companies.Regards,Andrés <snip>
Hi Andres,
There is a simple strategy that all sales people learn: find the decision maker.
From your email, I can see that some people are sympathetic to this
objective but they are either not able to make the final decision or whatever. So from what I can see, you are still in the early phase of this project, trying to identify the real decision maker.
What these other people can do, however, is to help you identify the right person to speak to and maybe even help you get an appointment. Documents concerning the Serco tender may reveal how that decision was made and who made the decision.
In democratic organisations (e.g. councils) the decision maker may be a group (e.g. the elected council). That can be more complicated.
In parallel with trying to find that person or group responsible for the decision, you also need to ask yourself: why will they care? If it is some manager or CEO, they will care about meeting their performance objectives to get their bonus. The performance objectives for a senior official may be in the public reports. If it is an elected council, they probably care about one thing above everything else: getting themselves re-elected, which usually means getting positive attention from the public. In any case, if you can identify the ultimate decision maker and the way to motivate them, you can close the deal.
Regards,
Daniel
On 09/10/13 21:35, Andres wrote:
Dear All, I am new to the mailing list, I have cut out contact details but it involves libraries in the UK. Let me know if not appropiate.
Dear Andrés
Thanks for this. Basic set up in our libraries is as follows - both staff and public networks are supported by SERCO. They provide:
· hardware and network support
· infrastructure support for e-mail (Exchange/Outlook)
· maintenance for the PCs - fix or replace malfunctioning devices.
· support for the VOIP phone network used by Libraries
· some support for printers on the public and staff networks
The fundamental software setup is based on the same architecture as the council as a whole - PCs currently run Windows XP and Office 2003. The Library management system is provided by Civica. Beyond the basic Microsoft setup we use software from a variety of sources, and have looked at a whole range of software from the proprietary (e.g. Photoshop Elements) to open source (e.g. The Gimp).
The reality is that the ICT resources in libraries and in the Council generally are at full stretch delivering a significant amount of change. Regrettably therefore I don’t think there is any appetite or capacity to engage at this time in any further consideration of open source software.
Thanks for your interest on this though – I hope you enjoyed the opening event as much as I did and that you and others in the community enjoy the fantastic new facilities now that they are properly open.
Regards,
<snip>
From: Andrés Muñiz Piniella
Dear *****,It was nice meeting you at the ***** event.Could you find out what the name of the company that will service the user side of the IT of *******((Public Libraries?From my conversation with Peter Bazalgette there is an 'Envisioning…' report that says open source in council libraries is the way to go but that it was up to Coucils. There is a general goverment push towards this as well, as you commented when we met.I then spoke to some of the techies in IT support for public service and they say they would love to support free (as in freedom not free beer) software on the public facing side, since background servers are already using free-libre open source software (FLOSS) tools. But they are stuck in the status quo. A particular techie said that talking to council to change was a waste of time, that I should talk directly to the support company. I do not think this is true, since the council is the client and the client is always right (if given a choice).Of course, general public is not going to request a shift from a particular american closed source company to one of the british FLOSS companies because they do not know there are options, consecuences of being in a sponsored monopoly for so long! That is why I hold workshops where I help neighbours using only FLOSS tech.Let me know if I am taking the wrong approach. And if you can help me contact your support companies.Regards,Andrés
<snip>
Discussion mailing list Discussion@fsfeurope.org https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Daniel Pocock daniel@pocock.com.au escribió:
Hi Andres,
There is a simple strategy that all sales people learn: find the decision maker.
Agreed! But it seems nobody wants to make the decision. Maybe someone form Richmond Upon Thames Council (UK) is around this mailing list?
From your email, I can see that some people are sympathetic to this objective but they are either not able to make the final decision or whatever. So from what I can see, you are still in the early phase of this project, trying to identify the real decision maker.
I guess, I thought I had identified it a couple of times, went from chief of culture to library manager, contract holding civil servant and library representative in the council. Frankly it is really interesting.
What these other people can do, however, is to help you identify the right person to speak to and maybe even help you get an appointment. Documents concerning the Serco tender may reveal how that decision was made and who made the decision.
Ok, I'll ask for that, maybe a freedom of information act? What about contacting the person with serco that manages the contract? Knowing serco they subcontract someone like civico.
In democratic organisations (e.g. councils) the decision maker may be a group (e.g. the elected council). That can be more complicated.
This is problably the case,
In parallel with trying to find that person or group responsible for the decision, you also need to ask yourself: why will they care? If it is some manager or CEO, they will care about meeting their performance objectives to get their bonus. The performance objectives for a senior official may be in the public reports. If it is an elected council, they probably care about one thing above everything else: getting themselves re-elected, which usually means getting positive attention from the public. In any case, if you can identify the ultimate decision maker and the way to motivate them, you can close the deal.
Thanks! For the tip, I will try to play this, elections are coming next year.
Regards,
Daniel
On 09/10/13 21:35, Andres wrote:
Dear All, I am new to the mailing list, I have cut out contact details but it
involves libraries in the UK.
Let me know if not appropiate.
Dear Andrés
Thanks for this. Basic set up in our libraries is as follows - both
staff and public networks are supported by SERCO. They provide:
· hardware and network support
· infrastructure support for e-mail (Exchange/Outlook)
· maintenance for the PCs - fix or replace malfunctioning
devices.
· support for the VOIP phone network used by Libraries
· some support for printers on the public and staff networks
The fundamental software setup is based on the same architecture as
the council as a whole - PCs currently run Windows XP and Office 2003. The Library management system is provided by Civica. Beyond the basic Microsoft setup we use software from a variety of sources, and have looked at a whole range of software from the proprietary (e.g. Photoshop Elements) to open source (e.g. The Gimp).
The reality is that the ICT resources in libraries and in the Council
generally are at full stretch delivering a significant amount of change. Regrettably therefore I don’t think there is any appetite or capacity to engage at this time in any further consideration of open source software.
Thanks for your interest on this though – I hope you enjoyed the
opening event as much as I did and that you and others in the community enjoy the fantastic new facilities now that they are properly open.
Regards,
<snip>
From: Andrés Muñiz Piniella
Dear *****,It was nice meeting you at the ***** event.Could you find
out what the name of the company that will service the user side of the IT of *******((Public Libraries?From my conversation with Peter Bazalgette there is an 'Envisioning…' report that says open source in council libraries is the way to go but that it was up to Coucils. There is a general goverment push towards this as well, as you commented when we met.I then spoke to some of the techies in IT support for public service and they say they would love to support free (as in freedom not free beer) software on the public facing side, since background servers are already using free-libre open source software (FLOSS) tools. But they are stuck in the status quo. A particular techie said that talking to council to change was a waste of time, that I should talk directly to the support company. I do not think this is true, since the council is the client and the client is always right (if given a choice).Of course,
general public is not going to request a shift from a particular
american closed source company to one of the british FLOSS companies because they do not know there are options, consecuences of being in a sponsored monopoly for so long! That is why I hold workshops where I help neighbours using only FLOSS tech.Let me know if I am taking the wrong approach. And if you can help me contact your support companies.Regards,Andrés
<snip>
Discussion mailing list Discussion@fsfeurope.org https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Dear Andrés,
On 09/10/13 19:35, Andres wrote:
I am new to the mailing list, I have cut out contact details but it involves libraries in the UK.
Welcome!
The venue is appropriate, but when forwarding a long e-mail exchange to a list, it would be rather decent to briefly summarise it.
In regard to the substance, am I correct that your e-mail exchange does not deal with the general situation in the UK, but with the local situation in a particular municipality?
If that is the case, I would pick a few technically minded council members and attempt to set up a meeting with them to explain the problem. If you can get them to bring up the issue at a council meeting, it will, at minimum, raise awareness of the problem, which might be enough to get the council move its libraries towards Free Software.
You also mention British FS companies in your original e-mail. Are there any who would benefit if the council moved to FS? Maybe you could contact one of those and ask them for help with lobbying?
On a more general note, do you know how common the problem is in general? Are there any municipalities making use of Free Software, especially on their public computers?
Cheers,
"Heiki "Repentinus" Ojasild" repentinus@fsfe.org escribió:
Dear Andrés,
On 09/10/13 19:35, Andres wrote:
I am new to the mailing list, I have cut out contact details but it involves libraries in the UK.
Welcome!
The venue is appropriate, but when forwarding a long e-mail exchange to a list, it would be rather decent to briefly summarise it.
Note taken, sorry, it does make sense.
In regard to the substance, am I correct that your e-mail exchange does not deal with the general situation in the UK, but with the local situation in a particular municipality?
Yes.
If that is the case, I would pick a few technically minded council members and attempt to set up a meeting with them to explain the problem. If you can get them to bring up the issue at a council meeting, it will, at minimum, raise awareness of the problem, which might be enough to get the council move its libraries towards Free Software.
OK, I will start finding out who is who.
You also mention British FS companies in your original e-mail. Are there any who would benefit if the council moved to FS? Maybe you could contact one of those and ask them for help with lobbying?
I can think of canonical and foss box, the latter might be easier.
On a more general note, do you know how common the problem is in general? Are there any municipalities making use of Free Software, especially on their public computers?
Not that I know of, I did mention munich and the french police incthe face to face canversation.
Thank you!