Hello everyone,
Little spoiler: if all goes well, there will be an illustrated read-aloud book "Ada & Zangemann - a fairy tale about software, skateboards, and ice cream" for children from ~5-6 years old about Free Software before the end of the year. The book will first be available in German, but I am already working on an English version.
In the book there will also be a link to a website with further information about Free Software. The current draft can be found at https://fsfe.org/activities/childrenbook/ (please do not share it yet).
An important component of this is the resource "How can children learn programming". There is
https://wiki.fsfe.org/Activities/ProgrammingForChildren
as a first framework for this in the wiki. It would be very helpful if you help to expand it, so that parents whose children are interested in programming can get some help, and if possible with resources that don't teach programming with non-free software.
Kind regards and have a nice Ada Lovelace Day, Matthias
Hi all,
What do you think about adding scratch ? It is a great way for young kids to learn algorithmic and having something fun fast.
We use it in my association with 5y.o. so they can start fast...
BUT 1) They don't provide scratch 3.0 on GNU/Linux (it is installable but it requires a parent able to find and follow a command-line tutorial to install it or you can use one of the website providing it and play in a browser...).
2) it is a modified BSD licence (+/-) to limit the use of the name Scratch.
Best,
Cryptie
------- Free Software, Free Society one daily commute at a time. Free Software Foundation Europe mailto: cryptie_at_fsfe.org xmpp: cryptie_at_jabber.fsfe.org
Hello Cryptie,
* Cryptie [2021-10-12 09:43 +0200]:
What do you think about adding scratch ? It is a great way for young kids to learn algorithmic and having something fun fast.
We use it in my association with 5y.o. so they can start fast...
BUT
They don't provide scratch 3.0 on GNU/Linux (it is installable but it requires a parent able to find and follow a command-line tutorial to install it or you can use one of the website providing it and play in a browser...).
it is a modified BSD licence (+/-) to limit the use of the name Scratch.
I am not 100% sure about the best approach. What do you and others here think about it?
Best regards, Matthias
FWIW i was working on an abstract for a book that teaches the new generation how to write a simple game engine (which seems to be something that lot of them have interest in doing) through playing the game that they've created and allowing them to release it on e.g. steam/itch.io etc...
The idea was "The Adventure of the red cube" which is separated on chapters: 0. Making a simple loop that opens a window with grey background 1. Adding a red rectangle to it 2. Making a movement for the red rectangle
etc.. to the point of various games
I've halted the project as i have other priorities now and lack resources for it, but considering that it's self-generating resources then maybe this idea will be useful to you?
-- Jacob "Kreyren" Hrbek
Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Tuesday, October 26th, 2021 at 7:28 AM, Matthias Kirschner mk@fsfe.org wrote:
Hello Cryptie,
- Cryptie [2021-10-12 09:43 +0200]:
What do you think about adding scratch ?
It is a great way for young kids to learn algorithmic and having something fun fast.
We use it in my association with 5y.o. so they can start fast...
BUT
- They don't provide scratch 3.0 on GNU/Linux (it is installable but it requires a parent able to find and follow a command-line tutorial to install it or you can use one of the website providing it and play in a browser...).
- it is a modified BSD licence (+/-) to limit the use of the name Scratch.
I am not 100% sure about the best approach. What do you and others here
think about it?
Best regards,
Matthias
Matthias Kirschner - President - Free Software Foundation Europe
Schönhauser Allee 6/7, 10119 Berlin, Germany | t +49-30-27595290
Registered at Amtsgericht Hamburg, VR 17030 |(fsfe.org/support)
Contact (fsfe.org/about/kirschner) Weblog k7r.eu/blog.html
Discussion mailing list
Discussion@lists.fsfe.org
This mailing list is covered by the FSFE's Code of Conduct. All
participants are kindly asked to be excellent to each other:
Hi, Matthias!
I have several years of experience teaching introductory programming concepts to children aged 6-18 in an after school setting using free software.
The 5-6 age range (at least with my students) was limited to drag and drop concepts such as Music Blocks [1], Blockly [2], Scratch 1.4 [3], and code.org. Music Blocks, Blockly, and the old offline Scratch version 1.4 are the only popular drag and drop options that are 100% free software that I am aware of.
Around the age of 10, I would switch them away from drag and drop languages to Python or Lua if they were inclined through modifying simple games and modifying Minetest mods.
I would primarily recommend Music Blocks as it can even be used offline through a browser on old hardware. The surrounding Sugar project [4] is also appropriate for this age group and can be found bundled with Trisquel [5].
Blockly is more of a framework than an easy to point to resource. Scratch is more focused on vendor lock-in rather than generally teaching programming in my opinion as there are not resources for moving on from Scratch within their platform.
I would also recommend the book Lauren Ipsum: A Story About Computer Science and Other Improbable Things by Carlos Bueno from No Starch Press [6] which targets ages 10 and up.
[1] https://musicblocks.sugarlabs.org/
[2] https://github.com/google/blockly https://developers.google.com/blockly/
[3] https://scratch.mit.edu/scratch_1.4
[4] https://www.sugarlabs.org/
[5] http://mirror.fsf.org/trisquel-images/trisquel-sugar_9.0_amd64.iso https://cdimage.trisquel.info/trisquel-images/trisquel-sugar_9.0_amd64.iso.s...
[6] https://nostarch.com/laurenipsum
Best, Michael McMahon | Web Developer, Free Software Foundation GPG Key: 4337 2794 C8AD D5CA 8FCF FA6C D037 59DA B600 E3C0 https://fsf.org |https://gnu.org
On 10/26/21 1:28 AM, Matthias Kirschner wrote:
Hello Cryptie,
- Cryptie [2021-10-12 09:43 +0200]:
What do you think about adding scratch ? It is a great way for young kids to learn algorithmic and having something fun fast.
We use it in my association with 5y.o. so they can start fast...
BUT
They don't provide scratch 3.0 on GNU/Linux (it is installable but it requires a parent able to find and follow a command-line tutorial to install it or you can use one of the website providing it and play in a browser...).
it is a modified BSD licence (+/-) to limit the use of the name Scratch.
I am not 100% sure about the best approach. What do you and others here think about it?
Best regards, Matthias
Michael, thanks for sharing your experiences.
Am Dienstag 26 Oktober 2021 18:38:20 schrieb Michael McMahon:
Around the age of 10, I would switch them away from drag and drop languages to Python or Lua if they were inclined through modifying simple games and modifying Minetest mods.
Reading and writing is an important precondition of course. So is logical thinking and having fun with puzzles.
Do you have experience with https://github.com/codecombat/codecombat and the service based on it? What I found good is that they were available in German.
So the local language matters a lot, because most children cannot do enough English at 10 years.
Anyone experiences or even research about board games that should prepare for coding, like https://www.thinkfun.com/type/coding-games/
Best Regards, Bernhard
Hi, Bernhard!
The lack of reading and writing skills was the issue I faced. You nailed it. I was also teaching lower income families so starting with a written language could start earlier depending on the student or groups writing level.
Yes, I did try codecombat and it was good. When I tried this a few years back the site was newer than it is now and there was not a lot of content to keep the kids intrigued. At the time it was a good activity for a few days. The page is free software, but "Note: the levels on codecombat.com are not open source." It would be amazing if there was a community effort to make libre levels. If it exists, I am unaware.
From the board game page you listed, I have Code Master and Robot Turtles which are similar. I found that the board games like that are not very exciting to young kids, but could be useful for an introduction to robotics concepts. A successful game we would use to introduce robotics was using the instructors as robots and the room as a game board. The children would write instructions and the instructors would interpret the instructions very literally. This can add comedy which balances out the frustration. Interpreting a one line program written as "Walk across the room" might result in walking in a straight line through the room and falling over the couch for example. Ambiguous instructs like "Turn right" could be interpreted as a 360 degree turn in place. "Walk forward three steps" would be interpreted correctly. The low tech nature of the game also helps reduce the economic barrier to entry.
The partner program that we used for robotics chose the Lego mindstorms platform which is proprietary, but also drag and drop like blockly and friends. A blockly based Arduino robot would be a great free software addition to the education space. If it exists, I am unaware.
Best, Michael McMahon | Web Developer, Free Software Foundation GPG Key: 4337 2794 C8AD D5CA 8FCF FA6C D037 59DA B600 E3C0 https://fsf.org | https://gnu.org
On 10/28/21 7:59 AM, Bernhard E. Reiter wrote:
Michael, thanks for sharing your experiences.
Am Dienstag 26 Oktober 2021 18:38:20 schrieb Michael McMahon:
Around the age of 10, I would switch them away from drag and drop languages to Python or Lua if they were inclined through modifying simple games and modifying Minetest mods.
Reading and writing is an important precondition of course. So is logical thinking and having fun with puzzles.
Do you have experience with https://github.com/codecombat/codecombat and the service based on it? What I found good is that they were available in German.
So the local language matters a lot, because most children cannot do enough English at 10 years.
Anyone experiences or even research about board games that should prepare for coding, like https://www.thinkfun.com/type/coding-games/
Best Regards, Bernhard
Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfe.org https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
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Dear Michael,
* Michael McMahon [2021-10-26 18:38 +0200]:
I have several years of experience teaching introductory programming concepts to children aged 6-18 in an after school setting using free software.
First of all thank you very much for your great feedback. Will try that out in the coming years.
Would you be able to include the information below on https://wiki.fsfe.org/Activities/ProgrammingForChildren ? If so let me know if you need any help with that.
The 5-6 age range (at least with my students) was limited to drag and drop concepts such as Music Blocks [1], Blockly [2], Scratch 1.4 [3], and code.org. Music Blocks, Blockly, and the old offline Scratch version 1.4 are the only popular drag and drop options that are 100% free software that I am aware of.
Around the age of 10, I would switch them away from drag and drop languages to Python or Lua if they were inclined through modifying simple games and modifying Minetest mods.
I would primarily recommend Music Blocks as it can even be used offline through a browser on old hardware. The surrounding Sugar project [4] is also appropriate for this age group and can be found bundled with Trisquel [5].
Blockly is more of a framework than an easy to point to resource. Scratch is more focused on vendor lock-in rather than generally teaching programming in my opinion as there are not resources for moving on from Scratch within their platform.
I would also recommend the book Lauren Ipsum: A Story About Computer Science and Other Improbable Things by Carlos Bueno from No Starch Press [6] which targets ages 10 and up.
[1] https://musicblocks.sugarlabs.org/
[2] https://github.com/google/blockly https://developers.google.com/blockly/
[3] https://scratch.mit.edu/scratch_1.4
[4] https://www.sugarlabs.org/
[5] http://mirror.fsf.org/trisquel-images/trisquel-sugar_9.0_amd64.iso https://cdimage.trisquel.info/trisquel-images/trisquel-sugar_9.0_amd64.iso.s...
Best regards, Matthias