Hello FSFE!
I just joined the FSFE after having almost completely moved to using 100% free software, my laptop is running Parabola GNU/Linux-libre (probaby with a non-free BIOS) and my mobile phone is a Galaxy S3 running Replicant with F-Droid apps.
Coming from a background in computer games, I was thinking really much about how to create free games and make money on it - to make it into a profession. First I thought about if the game is free software then it will no longer be a "commodity" in the same sense as todays games where you basically buy a license to be permitted to install the executables and artwork on your computer.
So what can be sold then, if the free software game isn't sellable in the same sense? My thought was that there would need to be other commodities and services around that software to sell, so my ideas began swirling around stuff like: A news magazine that covers interesting and fun parts of the game, given out my paper and/or email. Courses and support for developing for the game engine or making mods if you want something quicker to get into. An art marketplace where you can buy and sell artwork (textures, sound files, music, special effects, maps, etc). I asked my cousin about this stuff since he's an economist, is it really doable? He thought there would need to be more to get out of it but it was interesting, the main question though was: Who is gonna want to have this kind of service? Programming, making artwork, reading a magazine?
Could this be something to start working on a new kind of "Steam" for free software games? One that does not simply sell an executable and not tell you anything, but the opposite it will give you the source code and then sell you education for developing for it and offer tools to buy/sell your very own art?
Please give your thoughts and if something like this has already been proposed before. I look forward to it.
Andreas Nilsson
On 14-08-17 10:18, Andreas Nilsson wrote:
Coming from a background in computer games, I was thinking really much about how to create free games and make money on it - to make it into a profession. First I thought about if the game is free software then it will no longer be a "commodity" in the same sense as todays games where you basically buy a license to be permitted to install the executables and artwork on your computer.
So what can be sold then, if the free software game isn't sellable in the same sense?
I wonder if paying for development with a crowd funding approach would be a viable model here. I have seen some instances where it was used for non-game free software. I.e. you ask for money for the investment that you're making: time. To abuse a popular acronym and make it better SDaaS: Software Development as a Service.
On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 12:04:44PM +0200, Giel van Schijndel wrote:
On 14-08-17 10:18, Andreas Nilsson wrote:
Coming from a background in computer games, I was thinking really much about how to create free games and make money on it - to make it into a profession. First I thought about if the game is free software then it will no longer be a "commodity" in the same sense as todays games where you basically buy a license to be permitted to install the executables and artwork on your computer.
So what can be sold then, if the free software game isn't sellable in the same sense?
I wonder if paying for development with a crowd funding approach would be a viable model here. I have seen some instances where it was used for non-game free software. I.e. you ask for money for the investment that you're making: time. To abuse a popular acronym and make it better SDaaS: Software Development as a Service.
I stumbled in the past on people doing that kind of things on Patreon... a non-free webservice, in that the software that runs the website and platform is not free software available to its users in the AGPL meaning...
Some games on Patreon like that are pretty much closed-source (and distributed as binaries), some are in Python done with Renpy (and inherently the source is disclosed).
On 08/14/2017 12:37 PM, Lionel Elie Mamane wrote:
On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 12:04:44PM +0200, Giel van Schijndel wrote: (...) I stumbled in the past on people doing that kind of things on Patreon... a non-free webservice, in that the software that runs the website and platform is not free software available to its users in the AGPL meaning...
Some games on Patreon like that are pretty much closed-source (and distributed as binaries), some are in Python done with Renpy (and inherently the source is disclosed).
RMS has written about this and has argued that computer games can be free and commercially viable by noting that while the software must be free, the same is not true of the artwork and narrative, which can be copyrighted.
So proprietary (in the sense that their copyright is "All rights reserved", not Creative Commons-style) games can be developed with free software engines without denying any of the four freedoms.
I would like to correct a little:
Free/libre software isn't not-copyrighted, in fact, the licenses depend on copyright to exist. So, all rights are reserved, regardless.
However, it has a difference: It's not under the *default* copyright license.
Also, I don't know which was this speech you talk about (no references so far), but I can point out from [[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/google-engineering-talk.html#freedom-2-moral-...]] that, according to Stallman, non-functiona/practical data/works must *at least* have the freedom to shared exact copies of the original work (half of freedom 2). This means that they must *at least* be under a license similar to CC BY-NC-ND.
Please note that, if we would talk about the inclusion of such works in free/libre system distributions, the requiremente would go further, in the sense that the freedom 2 *completely* would be required for such works, according to the GNU Free System Distribution Guidelines ([[https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html#non-fun...]]). This would require *at least* CC BY-ND.
Morever, it must be noted that functional/practical data/works (which must have all four freedoms) sometimes disguise themselves as non-functional/practical. For examples, see:
- Non-free :: Frogatto "data", whose scenarios have some logic/scripting elements inside.
- Free :: Battle for Wesnoth campaigns, id. Frogatto "data".
Hi Andreas,
Some had success on free software by selling the executable of their application, as it is in itself a commodity for Windows and MacOSX users, may also work for GNU/Linux users too.
You may also offer executable with some limited access to your application.
Not sure it will turn to be successful if you offer additional services against a fee as you described: it will be an additional strain, distracting you from developing your application.
Best wishes of successes
Hilaire
Le 14/08/2017 à 10:18, Andreas Nilsson a écrit :
Could this be something to start working on a new kind of "Steam" for free software games? One that does not simply sell an executable and not tell you anything, but the opposite it will give you the source code and then sell you education for developing for it and offer tools to buy/sell your very own art?
Hi Andreas, I agree that there ought to be a way and have spent much time, myself, searching for such a workable equation. Here http://netdispenser.github.io/ is what I've come up with ... welcome to collaborate. Best, -Charles
On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 2:18 AM, Andreas Nilsson an@bahnhof.se wrote:
Hello FSFE!
I just joined the FSFE after having almost completely moved to using 100% free software, my laptop is running Parabola GNU/Linux-libre (probaby with a non-free BIOS) and my mobile phone is a Galaxy S3 running Replicant with F-Droid apps.
Coming from a background in computer games, I was thinking really much about how to create free games and make money on it - to make it into a profession. First I thought about if the game is free software then it will no longer be a "commodity" in the same sense as todays games where you basically buy a license to be permitted to install the executables and artwork on your computer.
So what can be sold then, if the free software game isn't sellable in the same sense? My thought was that there would need to be other commodities and services around that software to sell, so my ideas began swirling around stuff like: A news magazine that covers interesting and fun parts of the game, given out my paper and/or email. Courses and support for developing for the game engine or making mods if you want something quicker to get into. An art marketplace where you can buy and sell artwork (textures, sound files, music, special effects, maps, etc). I asked my cousin about this stuff since he's an economist, is it really doable? He thought there would need to be more to get out of it but it was interesting, the main question though was: Who is gonna want to have this kind of service? Programming, making artwork, reading a magazine?
Could this be something to start working on a new kind of "Steam" for free software games? One that does not simply sell an executable and not tell you anything, but the opposite it will give you the source code and then sell you education for developing for it and offer tools to buy/sell your very own art?
Please give your thoughts and if something like this has already been proposed before. I look forward to it.
Andreas Nilsson
Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfe.org https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
The "Steam" for this already exists: They are package managers.
Although most package managers also have package downloaders inside, the user can still install packages from files he downloaded/got provided these files are in a format understandable by the package manager.
Essentially, you can provide the package file and distribute it to the users, in whichever means you find useful, some of these being:
- CD with game and complete corresponding source.
- CD with game and *no* source at all.
- DVD with game and complete corresponding source.
- DVD with game and *no* source at all.
- USB with game and complete corresponding source.
- USB with game and *no* source at all.
- Public network service with game and complete corresponding source.
- Password-protected network service with game and complete corresponding source.
However note that in the case of password-protected content and with distribution not including the complete corresponding source, be sure to comply with the licenses that affect the project. This is very easy, just don't lock-down the user and be transparent and provide any *printed* document that the license tells you to provide to the user, even if the network service itself has a notice and even if the docuemnt is included inside the media. For more information, see this community-made guide to GPL compliance: [[https://copyleft.org/guide/monolithic/]].
Whicever you choose, once the package is provided, the user can use the package manager to install it.
On the subject of financial sustainability, this is an interesting challenge. One idea that might help is to think about software no longer as a "ready-made" product, but a constantly evolving one, which requires community contributions (financial (by means of paying for something), donations, testing, publishing/marketing, coding, art-making, license compliance enforcement, documentation, accounting, quality control, and so on), and considering the end-users as part of the community.
Be aware that donations and crowdfunding models which use network services to such ends generally have the following disadvantages *to the end-user*:
- No requirement for the end result, which *is delivered* to the end-user, to be free/libre software. And no requirement for the non-functional/practical data/works to be *at least* unlimitedly shareable.
- The network service being provided to contribute financially or by donations often requires the end-user (assumed to be non-tech person) to use non-free software automatically in the web browser (generally through JavaScript).
Also regardless of the network service choosen, donations and crowdfunding models are generally fragile and impossible to predict due to various factors.
However, although I'm not involved with it, Snowdrift.coop has various researches on the subject, mainly found in their wiki, also provides comparison on various crowdfunding platform service providers. However, I do agree with Snowdrift.coop in that Snowdrift.coop, once stablished and publicly open, will surely be the best of any of the providers ([[https://wiki.snowdrift.coop/market-research/other-crowdfunding]]).
Besides, Snowdrift.coop also compares crowdfunding platforms, and provides arguments for choosing crowdmatching over the rest (see previous reference); and also compares new forms of financial payment systems, and notes that GNU Taler might be the way out of this mess we are in ([[https://wiki.snowdrift.coop/market-research/payment-services]]).
Also, GNU Taler is payment system, not a new currency, it works with any currency, even dollars, Brazilian Real, BitCoin. More information in: [[https://taler.net/videos/taler2017eh.webm]] (talk by Sva, produced by c3voc.de, licensed under CC BY-ND 3.0). According to the talk, GNU Taler is currently needing at least one bank to implement it.