Hi,
I'd like to draw some attention to a news message I read. It's on a bit of a free software unfriendly site (zdnet belgium).
http://www.zdnet.be/News.cfm?id=14276&mxp=27
It's in dutch, and gives some details about a new cd, that will be protected by cactus data shield technology. What's so bad about this, is that it's a propietary format that will only play on a specialised player in Windows. No mac or gnu/linux support. In my eyes this is extremely bad. The 'experiment' will be carried out in the US and off course the program etc. fall under DMCA. I think this is a good example of the reasons why DMCA should be abolished. If more record companies go this way, eventually we will be unable to buy cd's anymore.
bye, Wim
On Fri, Dec 21, 2001 at 09:00:22PM +0100, Wim De Smet wrote:
Hi,
I'd like to draw some attention to a news message I read. It's on a bit of a free software unfriendly site (zdnet belgium).
http://www.zdnet.be/News.cfm?id=14276&mxp=27
It's in dutch, and gives some details about a new cd, that will be protected by cactus data shield technology. What's so bad about this, is that it's a propietary format that will only play on a specialised player in Windows. No mac or gnu/linux support. In my eyes this is extremely bad. The 'experiment' will be carried out in the US and off course the program etc. fall under DMCA. I think this is a good example of the reasons why DMCA should be abolished. If more record companies go this way, eventually we will be unable to buy cd's anymore.
I'm going to issue a lot of things in this mail (I'm to lazy to split them :-) ).
First for the non-dutch speakers under us, http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-8225543.html is almost the same article but in english. It doesn't look very nice. :(
Second I want to know if cracking this is illegal in Europe (especially in The Netherlands as I live there). If not, IMHO we should make a GPL'd GNU/Linux to fight for our freedom. I'm going to the CCC Congress (http://www.ccc.de/congress/2001), it would be a nice project to do it their (I will bring my own computer with me). Does somebody know if these CDs are available in Europe?
If there are people going to the congress, it would be nice to meet other free software supporters. Just mail me if you want to meet me there. :)
Also for all dutch and belgic people here: What about setting up a FSF Benelux? AFAIK there doesn't exist anything like that (At least not here in The Netherlands, there is only some open source thing. I don't know about Belgium).
Okay that was it. :)
Jeroen Dekkers
On Fri, 21 Dec 2001, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
Also for all dutch and belgic people here: What about setting up a FSF Benelux? AFAIK there doesn't exist anything like that (At least not here in The Netherlands, there is only some open source thing. I don't know about Belgium).
I've been looking for vict... errr... people to do that with for a year now. I'm not really getting very far on my own. How *DO* you recruit people for the FSF eh? ;-)
Even people on this list often seem to have very little time :-(
Maybe a meeting someplace could be arranged in the coming weeks.
read you soon, Kim Bruning
On Fri, Dec 21, 2001 at 11:51:47PM +0100, kim2@bruning.demon.nl wrote:
On Fri, 21 Dec 2001, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
Also for all dutch and belgic people here: What about setting up a FSF Benelux? AFAIK there doesn't exist anything like that (At least not here in The Netherlands, there is only some open source thing. I don't know about Belgium).
I've been looking for vict... errr... people to do that with for a year now. I'm not really getting very far on my own. How *DO* you recruit people for the FSF eh? ;-)
Place them in a small room together with RMS for some time? :) I don't know, but it would be cool setup something. Maybe I can find more people. I could try to convince Rik van Riel, but I don't think I will succeed. He doesn't live in The Netherlands anymore either. I think cooperating with out southern neighbours is a good idea. We have the almost the same language (in Flanders at least).
Even people on this list often seem to have very little time :-(
I'm just still sitting on school (5VWO), so I have much free time to spend. Although I'm already active in other projects.
Maybe a meeting someplace could be arranged in the coming weeks.
I'm already going to the CCC congress the 27th to the 30th. I don't know if there are other people from the FSFe going?
Jeroen Dekkers
On Fri, Dec 21, 2001 at 11:51:47PM +0100, kim2@bruning.demon.nl wrote:
I've been looking for vict... errr... people to do that with for a year now. I'm not really getting very far on my own. How *DO* you recruit people for the FSF eh? ;-)
Even people on this list often seem to have very little time :-(
Maybe a meeting someplace could be arranged in the coming weeks.
Maybe we should just do that, and stop talking about it? I think we exchanged some mail on this in the beginning of this year, and we're nearing the end of it now...
So, where do we meet next year? I know a nice pub in Amsterdan :-)
Cheers//Frank
Frank de Lange fsfe-frank@unternet.org [011222]:
On Fri, Dec 21, 2001 at 11:51:47PM +0100, kim2@bruning.demon.nl wrote:
I've been looking for vict... errr... people to do that with for a year now. I'm not really getting very far on my own. How *DO* you recruit people for the FSF eh? ;-)
Even people on this list often seem to have very little time :-(
Maybe a meeting someplace could be arranged in the coming weeks.
Maybe we should just do that, and stop talking about it? I think we exchanged some mail on this in the beginning of this year, and we're nearing the end of it now...
So, where do we meet next year? I know a nice pub in Amsterdan :-)
Another good place to do a meeting is the FOSDEM in Brussels in February, it could be a well suited place to do such things?
A friend of mine is one of the organisator, so...And RMS will be there, and other members of FSF Europe, I hope.
BNJ
|| On Sat, 22 Dec 2001 12:10:25 +0100 || Henrion Benjamin bh@udev.org wrote:
hb> Another good place to do a meeting is the FOSDEM in Brussels in hb> February, it could be a well suited place to do such things?
I'll try to make it although I cannot be sure right now. Next year looks like it is going to be very busy.
Regards, Georg
"Benjamin" == Henrion Benjamin bh@udev.org writes:
Benjamin> Another good place to do a meeting is the FOSDEM in Benjamin> Brussels in February, it could be a well suited place to Benjamin> do such things?
Benjamin> A friend of mine is one of the organisator, so...And RMS Benjamin> will be there, and other members of FSF Europe, I hope.
I will be present (with Loïc Dachary, Raphaël Rousseau and Olivier Berger I think).
On Sat, Dec 22, 2001 at 12:10:25PM +0100, Henrion Benjamin wrote:
Another good place to do a meeting is the FOSDEM in Brussels in February, it could be a well suited place to do such things?
A friend of mine is one of the organisator, so...And RMS will be there, and other members of FSF Europe.
As members for the FSF Europe go I think that Werner, Raphael, Frederic and Bernhard (yes, me) will probably be at the F.SDEM.
Right now I am still waiting for some information, as I was going to do a talk but this got stuck somewhere in the communication process so all slot seem to be taken. Contact has been reestablished and we'll see about this.
Bernhard
On Sat, 22 Dec 2001, Frank de Lange wrote:
On Fri, Dec 21, 2001 at 11:51:47PM +0100, kim2@bruning.demon.nl wrote:
Maybe a meeting someplace could be arranged in the coming weeks.
Maybe we should just do that, and stop talking about it? I think we exchanged some mail on this in the beginning of this year, and we're nearing the end of it now...
So, where do we meet next year? I know a nice pub in Amsterdan :-)
Hmmm, I think I can make it to Amsterdam, I don't know about belgian people though. I could invite everyone to my place in this tiny village called "Wijk en Aalburg" which is 30 minutes drive/bustrip from Den Bosch. It still feels like it's close to Belgium that way. :-)
Is that an option?
Wherever we meet, we would probably want to discuss setting up a small benelux organisation, and then later we can associate with the FSF, as is the "Standard Procedure". Well apparently it is, anyway. :-)
Let's not be too ambitious to start off with. Right now we're all just a bunch of people corresponding over E-mail. It's going to take some time and dedication to actually build up an organisation from that. And even some more time before we get the Official Stamp Of FSF Approval(tm)(r)[(c)+gpl].
Hard work and patience, that's what we'll need! :-P
read you soon, Kim "I think I'm sounding like an old grandpa here ;-) " Bruning
On Sat, Dec 22, 2001 at 09:17:14PM +0100, kim2@bruning.demon.nl wrote:
On Sat, 22 Dec 2001, Frank de Lange wrote:
On Fri, Dec 21, 2001 at 11:51:47PM +0100, kim2@bruning.demon.nl wrote:
Maybe a meeting someplace could be arranged in the coming weeks.
Maybe we should just do that, and stop talking about it? I think we exchanged some mail on this in the beginning of this year, and we're nearing the end of it now...
So, where do we meet next year? I know a nice pub in Amsterdan :-)
Hmmm, I think I can make it to Amsterdam, I don't know about belgian people though. I could invite everyone to my place in this tiny village called "Wijk en Aalburg" which is 30 minutes drive/bustrip from Den Bosch. It still feels like it's close to Belgium that way. :-)
Is that an option?
I think FOSDEM (which was suggested by Henrion Benjamin) is a good place. There is already a big chance I will be there. We have to wait 2 months then, we might meet earlier. I wasn't subscribed in the beginning of the year, but I'm going to read the archives to know what was discussed.
Wherever we meet, we would probably want to discuss setting up a small benelux organisation, and then later we can associate with the FSF, as is the "Standard Procedure". Well apparently it is, anyway. :-)
Let's not be too ambitious to start off with. Right now we're all just a bunch of people corresponding over E-mail. It's going to take some time and dedication to actually build up an organisation from that. And even some more time before we get the Official Stamp Of FSF Approval(tm)(r)[(c)+gpl].
We should not forget the most important thing: promoting free software. There are many ways to do that, small and big. Don't forget what a bunch of people with an internet connection can do, just look at free software. :)
Hard work and patience, that's what we'll need! :-P
Certainly. :)
Jeroen Dekkers
|| On Fri, 21 Dec 2001 23:51:47 +0100 (CET) || kim2@bruning.demon.nl wrote:
How *DO* you recruit people for the FSF eh? ;-)
That is indeed a good question. We try to do what is necessary and what we can, hoping to inspire others to do the same. This actually does work sometimes although not as often as we would like it to. :)
Even people on this list often seem to have very little time :-(
Time is always a problem for a community of able individuals. The FSF Europe web site is a good example for this: a redesign/restructuring is needed for months now, but noone had time to do it.
Regards, Georg
Jeroen Dekkers jeroen@dekkers.cx [011221]:
Also for all dutch and belgic people here: What about setting up a FSF Benelux? AFAIK there doesn't exist anything like that (At least not here in The Netherlands, there is only some open source thing. I don't know about Belgium).
Yeah, in Belgium, we've tried to launch a National Organisation called "OpenBe.Org" last year, but the project is still sleeping. My opinion is that the name is not well choosen, I've just reserved "FreeSBe.Org", like Free Software in Belgium, and I will see if people are motivated to do something in the next days or months.
I think that we need such org in our country, because it's very difficult, or example, to say something to our politics whitout having an organisation (I take the example of swpat).
I'm waiting for reacts of Belgian people...
BNJ
On Fri, Dec 21, 2001 at 10:22:51PM +0100, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
If there are people going to the congress, it would be nice to meet other free software supporters. Just mail me if you want to meet me there. :)
Unfortunalty I won't make it to the congress. AFAIK Georg also will not be there. Don't know about the other members of the FSFE coreteam, but haven't heard plans. Werner is the person which _might_ be there.
Also for all dutch and belgic people here: What about setting up a FSF Benelux? AFAIK there doesn't exist anything like that (At least not here in The Netherlands, there is only some open source thing. I don't know about Belgium).
Please note that we recommend to build up an organisation to support Free Software first. This organisation should be open for people to become members.
Naturally this organisation then gets associated with the FSFE next.
As third step an FSFE Chapter Belgium as official arm of the FSFE could be founded in the long run.
This is the way Italy, Austria, Portugal and the UK are working. Italy for instance has Asoli which associated to the FSFE.
It would be great to have more people in Belgium. Bernhard
Hello All,
There is a possibility. We have an A.S.B.L. in Belgium, the AEL (Association Electronique Libre). The purpose of the association : it's to support Libre software and Libre concept in general. All the activists are clearly engaged in free software.
We have multiple project in Belgium and Luxembourg around free software promotion.
Is there a possibility to create a local chapter for Belgium with the fsfeurope via the A.E.L. ?
How is it working ? is there a procedure on savannah ?
Thanks.
Alex
-- Alexandre.Dulaunoy@ael.be http://www.ael.be/ alex@foo.be http://www.foo.be/
On Sat, 22 Dec 2001, Bernhard Reiter wrote:
On Fri, Dec 21, 2001 at 10:22:51PM +0100, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
If there are people going to the congress, it would be nice to meet other free software supporters. Just mail me if you want to meet me there. :)
Unfortunalty I won't make it to the congress. AFAIK Georg also will not be there. Don't know about the other members of the FSFE coreteam, but haven't heard plans. Werner is the person which _might_ be there.
Also for all dutch and belgic people here: What about setting up a FSF Benelux? AFAIK there doesn't exist anything like that (At least not here in The Netherlands, there is only some open source thing. I don't know about Belgium).
Please note that we recommend to build up an organisation to support Free Software first. This organisation should be open for people to become members.
Naturally this organisation then gets associated with the FSFE next.
As third step an FSFE Chapter Belgium as official arm of the FSFE could be founded in the long run.
This is the way Italy, Austria, Portugal and the UK are working. Italy for instance has Asoli which associated to the FSFE.
It would be great to have more people in Belgium. Bernhard
Alexandre Dulaunoy wrote:
Hello All,
There is a possibility. We have an A.S.B.L. in Belgium, the AEL (Association Electronique Libre). The purpose of the association : it's to support Libre software and Libre concept in general. All the activists are clearly engaged in free software.
Could you provide a website? Do you have projects in flanders too?
We have multiple project in Belgium and Luxembourg around free software promotion.
Is there a possibility to create a local chapter for Belgium with the fsfeurope via the A.E.L. ?
How is it working ? is there a procedure on savannah ?
Thanks.
Alex
-- Alexandre.Dulaunoy@ael.be http://www.ael.be/ alex@foo.be http://www.foo.be/
On Sat, 22 Dec 2001, Bernhard Reiter wrote:
On Fri, Dec 21, 2001 at 10:22:51PM +0100, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
If there are people going to the congress, it would be nice to meet other free software supporters. Just mail me if you want to meet me there. :)
Unfortunalty I won't make it to the congress. AFAIK Georg also will not be there. Don't know about the other members of the FSFE coreteam, but haven't heard plans. Werner is the person which _might_ be there.
Also for all dutch and belgic people here: What about setting up a FSF Benelux? AFAIK there doesn't exist anything like that (At least not here in The Netherlands, there is only some open source thing. I don't know about Belgium).
Please note that we recommend to build up an organisation to support Free Software first. This organisation should be open for people to become members.
Naturally this organisation then gets associated with the FSFE next.
As third step an FSFE Chapter Belgium as official arm of the FSFE could be founded in the long run.
This is the way Italy, Austria, Portugal and the UK are working. Italy for instance has Asoli which associated to the FSFE.
It would be great to have more people in Belgium. Bernhard
I'd like to help, only if I wasn't such a newbie I'd be of more use I guess.
Discussion mailing list Discussion@fsfeurope.org http://mailman.fsfeurope.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussion
thx for your time, Wim
On Sun, 23 Dec 2001, Wim De Smet wrote:
Alexandre Dulaunoy wrote:
Hello All,
There is a possibility. We have an A.S.B.L. in Belgium, the AEL (Association Electronique Libre). The purpose of the association : it's to support Libre software and Libre concept in general. All the activists are clearly engaged in free software.
Could you provide a website? Do you have projects in flanders too?
We have some people from flanders. The main project is the wireless network project. But we are really open to other projects in flanders, if you want to participate, don't hesitate to subscribe to the mailing-list. http://www.be.linux.org/mailman/listinfo/asbl-libre
Bernhard
I'd like to help, only if I wasn't such a newbie I'd be of more use I guess.
You can help. We are looking for coordinators in flanders. We have for the moment one people for the dutch translation but you can help by doing translation. If you want, I can add you as an activist and an editor for the web site.
Thanks a lot.
PS : It's mainly offtopic for the fsfeurope mailing list, but we can continue on the asbl-libre mailing list.
Hi Alexandre,
|| On Sun, 23 Dec 2001 12:17:19 +0100 (CET) || Alexandre Dulaunoy alex@conostix.com wrote:
ad> There is a possibility. We have an A.S.B.L. in Belgium, the AEL ad> (Association Electronique Libre). The purpose of the association: ad> it's to support Libre software and Libre concept in general. All ad> the activists are clearly engaged in free software.
The first step to get involved in the FSF Europe for this association would be to apply for "associate organization" status (like APRIL or AsSoLi). From your description and a quick glance at the web page, your organization appears to be a very good candidate.
Then we can start working together and get to know each other. I'm sure we will be able to arrange a meeting next year and then we can discuss further steps.
As a first step you should consult with your members whether the majority wants to work together with / get involved in the work of the FSF Europe. Then the legal representative of your association should send email to team@fsfeurope.org applying for associate organization status.
Regards, Georg