Hello everybody,
During our first virtual European Coordinators Meeting, we realized that we should establish a team to take care of the wiki. There is a lot of great information on there, but some of it is hard to find, some of it is outdated, and some material is not so good at all. So we want to set up a group, the wiki caretakers, to go through the wiki, find the necessary tasks and then take care of them.
If you would like to support us in this effort, just send me an email so we can coordinate. I set up a pad with some suggestions [1]; please have a look. Please do not perform all of these changes yet; some of them need some more discussion. Feel free to leave any comments on the pad if you disagree with a point I made.
If the pad should not be enough for organizing the team at any point, we can set up a Quick ML mailing list. Just let me know.
I'm looking forward to hearing from you. :-)
Happy hacking! Florian
[1] https://public.pad.fsfe.org/p/wiki_caretakers
On 02/26/2016 06:22 PM, Florian Snow wrote:
Hello everybody,
During our first virtual European Coordinators Meeting, we realized that we should establish a team to take care of the wiki. There is a lot of great information on there, but some of it is hard to find, some of it is outdated, and some material is not so good at all. So we want to set up a group, the wiki caretakers, to go through the wiki, find the necessary tasks and then take care of them.
If you would like to support us in this effort, just send me an email so we can coordinate. I set up a pad with some suggestions [1]; please have a look. Please do not perform all of these changes yet; some of them need some more discussion. Feel free to leave any comments on the pad if you disagree with a point I made.
If the pad should not be enough for organizing the team at any point, we can set up a Quick ML mailing list. Just let me know.
I'm looking forward to hearing from you. :-)
Happy hacking! Florian
Hi Florian,
I will vote for the ML and you can add me to one of the first subscribers. Is it possible to send an E-Mail to the ML if someone changes the pad? This way people get informed and can then open the pad and get all information. Otherwise they would have to open the pad on more or less regular terms and have to carefully check if changes happened at all. I like mails so I definitely would prefer notification by mail. Other peoples mileage might vary.
Best regards, Thomas
# Thomas Doczkal [27.02.2016 @ 12:25]:
subscribers. Is it possible to send an E-Mail to the ML if someone changes the pad? This way people get informed and can then open the pad and get all information.
Unfortunately this isn't possible with the etherpad-lite which we use currently.
However, there's a plugin for etherpad-lite [1], but still I doubt that our system administrators would be happy to install it without doing thorough checks. I Cc'd them, maybe they can give a more detailed reply to that question.
Best, Max
[1] https://www.npmjs.com/package/ep_email_notifications
Hello,
On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 12:25:35PM +0100, Thomas Doczkal wrote:
On 02/26/2016 06:22 PM, Florian Snow wrote:
Hello everybody,
During our first virtual European Coordinators Meeting, we realized that we should establish a team to take care of the wiki. There is a lot of
I'm in!
If the pad should not be enough for organizing the team at any point, we can set up a Quick ML mailing list. Just let me know.
I will vote for the ML and you can add me to one of the first subscribers. Is it possible to send an E-Mail to the ML if someone changes the pad? This way people get informed and can then open the pad
The wiki allows email notifications. I'd find a wiki page only natural for "wiki caretakers".
Greetings,
Guido
Hi,
Guido Arnold guido@fsfe.org, Saturday, 27 February 2016, 22:10:56 CET:
The wiki allows email notifications. I'd find a wiki page only natural for "wiki caretakers".
That is a good point. I will try to migrate the content from the pad to the wiki as soon as possible.
Happy hacking! Florian
On 2016-02-26 18:22:37, Florian Snow wrote:
If you would like to support us in this effort, just send me an email so we can coordinate. I set up a pad with some suggestions [1]; please have a look. Please do not perform all of these changes yet; some of them need some more discussion. Feel free to leave any comments on the pad if you disagree with a point I made.
Hello Florian,
your proposal is well timed. I am in the process of preparing an update for the Wiki software. I was planning to migrate Wiki pages and to sort them into sensible hierarchy in the process.
Have a look at: https://wiki-test.fsfe.org/WikiAdmin
(the test host is runnning under the certificate of the productive host, hence the SSL warning)
Specific changes are: - We will have a navigation menu that can be edited as a Wiki page. - Functional pages, like Access Groups will have their own namespace (did you know, that the page FellowshipGroup has an accidental effect on the interpretation of ACLs) - We will not have wiki guest accounts anymore. Instead we have started to offer free volunteer fellowship accounts, which makes our work as system administrators a lot easier. Additionally wiki editors will be able to make pages anonymously writable. - Because of the former, I am setting up better spam protection. - I don't think we should retain the "auto admin group" feature, I find it confusing and it's probably causing unexpected effects. Hierarchical ACLs should be a sufficient replacement - I am thinking about putting a write protection on the top most hierarchy level. We will figure out sections in which to grant full permissions then. E.g. we would have a page like FellowshipGroups/ where each group can maintain their own subpage structure with self choosen Permissions and a page like TechDocs or FellowShipServices or whatever makes sense. This way new pages would automatically have to find a category, even if this categroy is simply "Misc". This makes it easyer to have overview pages with automatic listings etc.
In the long run we are planning to put the Wiki at a more prominent place within the zoo of fellowship services. Content that usually goes to the main website so far, will more likely find its way to the wiki in the future.
The proposals in the etherpad are great, I like all of them.
Hi Paul,
Paul Hänsch paul@fsfe.org, Sunday, 28 February 2016, 22:30:45 CET:
your proposal is well timed. I am in the process of preparing an update for the Wiki software. I was planning to migrate Wiki pages and to sort them into sensible hierarchy in the process.
I heard you were working on something there (I thought mostly design related), but I was unaware that you would reorganize content during the migration.
Specific changes are:
- We will have a navigation menu that can be edited as a Wiki page.
Awesome! I think this will be tremendously useful!
- Functional pages, like Access Groups will have their own namespace
(did you know, that the page FellowshipGroup has an accidental effect on the interpretation of ACLs)
No, I did not know that. I hope it is a positive effect and not a hassle for you.
- I don't think we should retain the "auto admin group" feature, I
find it confusing and it's probably causing unexpected effects.
I'm not sure what that is.
This way new pages would automatically have to find a category, even if this categroy is simply "Misc".
That sounds good. That means the caretakers wouldn't constantly need to check all pages, but just the pages in the misc category so those pages can possibly be assigned other categories.
This makes it easyer to have overview pages with automatic listings etc.
Speaking of which: Is there a way to easily set up portal pages similar to the ones on Wikipedia? I found the include() macro, but not much else and if we want to use include() to get abstracts or something similar, we need to manually define abstracts on those pages.
Content that usually goes to the main website so far, will more likely find its way to the wiki in the future.
Great! That was something else I had thought about as well. The team pages for example would be a great candidate to be moved.
Generally speaking, would it make sense to move pages to the new wiki as we are reorganizing or should all the content stay on the current wiki for the time being? I'm not sure what the plans for the technical side are, that's why I'm asking.
Happy hacking! Florian
Hello everyone,
In order to have email notifications, we moved the organization of that team to the wiki [1]. If you already sent me an email about wanting to help, please go to the wiki and add your name to the list of participants. I am not comfortable sharing your name publicly, which is why I'm asking you to add your name yourself.
[1] https://wiki.fsfe.org/WikiCaretakers
Happy hacking! Florian
Hi,
I am not comfortable sharing your name publicly, which is why I'm asking you to add your name yourself.
Thanks, I've added myself...
On a different topic: Do we have a schedule for the effort as a whole? I.e. do we (want to) have deadlines for the end of planning-phase, as well as for first, second, third sweep?
Looking a bit further into the future: we could probably turn this whole effort into an annual Wiki Spring cleaning...
Cheers, Johannes
Hi Johannes,
Thank you for your formatting help! The Caretakers pages look much nicer now.
Johannes Zarl-Zierl jzarl@fsfe.org, Monday, 29 February 2016, 19:35:23 CET:
On a different topic: Do we have a schedule for the effort as a whole? I.e. do we (want to) have deadlines for the end of planning-phase, as well as for first, second, third sweep?
Hm, I thought we would just give people the chance to comment and then start. I think a deadline for the planning phase might be useful, but I think it depends on whether or not there is a lot of participation to begin with. If there are very few comments, I think we don't need much of a deadline.
For the sweeps themselves, I think how long this part takes depends mostly on how much time we can spend on the effort. So I don't know how we would implement deadlines here. I meant sweep as in really looking at every page (there are only a couple of hundred).
Looking a bit further into the future: we could probably turn this whole effort into an annual Wiki Spring cleaning...
Sure, I think that is a great idea. We should still monitor the changes, but some cruft will still accumulate and a spring cleaning would indeed be very useful for that.
Happy hacking! Florian
OK, I've set up a special permission group in the new wiki:
https://wiki-test.fsfe.org/Group/WikiCareTakers
Members of this group will be able to set up top level pages. They do also have general admin rights where permissions are not otherwise given, *but* they do not supersede existing ACLs.
On 2016-02-29 19:35:23, Johannes Zarl-Zierl wrote:
On a different topic: Do we have a schedule for the effort as a whole? I.e. do we (want to) have deadlines for the end of planning-phase, as well as for first, second, third sweep?
I hereby declare wiki-test.fsfe.org as writable. I think we should switch it into production within the next week. Content created there now on will be retained when this happens. We should move this fast to keep the migration phase smooth.
Please think of top level structures, categories and templates and set them up.
Also read and edit http://wiki-test.fsfe.org/WikiAdmin
Having access to the server I can migrate pages from the old Wiki easily, including their edit history.
I have already started migrating permission groups and some pages, which are protected by ACLs. Visitors of those pages will be redirected to http://wiki.fsfe.org/PageMigrated
When I am done with those critical parts (~90 pages), I could move all remaining, unprotected pages to some incoming section of the new wiki and we can move them into place, and rename them from there. This affects some 1500 pages, but as they are not completely unordered, we can move a lot of them in Bulk (e.g. the FellowshipGroup and Fellows pages, including sub pages).
We will make sure that the old Wiki cannot be edited anymore while we are in this phase.
Looking a bit further into the future: we could probably turn this whole effort into an annual Wiki Spring cleaning...
Yes, sounds good. What we do this time is a special case though. We are moving wiki instances here. Future work will be less troublesome and will probably not require write protecting pages in the process.
That's great news ;-)
On Monday 29 February 2016 22:22:22 Paul Hänsch wrote:
Having access to the server I can migrate pages from the old Wiki easily, including their edit history.
I have already started migrating permission groups and some pages, which are protected by ACLs. Visitors of those pages will be redirected to http://wiki.fsfe.org/PageMigrated
When I am done with those critical parts (~90 pages), I could move all remaining, unprotected pages to some incoming section of the new wiki and we can move them into place, and rename them from there. This affects some 1500 pages, but as they are not completely unordered, we can move a lot of them in Bulk (e.g. the FellowshipGroup and Fellows pages, including sub pages).
Is it possible to add a category during the migration step? If so, it might be a good idea to add something like CategoryMigration or CategoryTodo, so that it is easy to spot pages that nobody looked at, yet...
Johannes
On 2016-02-29 22:57:35, Johannes Zarl-Zierl wrote:
Is it possible to add a category during the migration step? If so, it might be a good idea to add something like CategoryMigration or CategoryTodo, so that it is easy to spot pages that nobody looked at, yet...
Yes, I didn't work much with Moins Categories and Templates so far, and I've only just had a look into the documentation. I'd even say we don't need to sync categories from the old Wiki. So it would be fine to make clean slate regarding categories and templates and just set them up in the new Wiki.
Examples for the naming convention I set in the config would be Category/Sausage and Category/Vegetable and accordingly Template/Breakfast and Template/Lunch.
Hi Paul,
Paul Hänsch paul@fsfe.org, Monday, 29 February 2016, 22:22:22 CET:
OK, I've set up a special permission group in the new wiki: https://wiki-test.fsfe.org/Group/WikiCareTakers
Thank you for that! I'm not trying to be picky, but is there are reason caretakers has been split into two words?
Please think of top level structures, categories and templates and set them up.
I'm happy to help with the migration, but I don't think we had enough time to think about appropriate structures yet. We're still in a phase of collecting ideas.
Also read and edit http://wiki-test.fsfe.org/WikiAdmin
I'm really excited about what I read there. Being able to edit the menu is a great feature, for example.
Having access to the server I can migrate pages from the old Wiki easily, including their edit history.
Given that the wiki caretakers are currently still collecting ideas, I would suggest to just go ahead and migrate pages that way. It is cleaner from a technical perspective, keeping histories is important, and I would imagine moving the text files MoinMoin has is a relatively smooth rsync task. If there is a way to help with this, I am happy to do it, but I don't think setting up pages manually and copying content from the old wiki is a good course of action (unless there are cases where that is necessary). Just let me know what I can do to help.
When I am done with those critical parts (~90 pages), I could move all remaining, unprotected pages to some incoming section of the new wiki and we can move them into place, and rename them from there.
We could also move and rename pages if they go to the same place they are in now. This way, the wiki stays usable throughout the process, so I'm in favor of that, especially given the current phase of the caretakers.
By th way, I had an idea to edit the CSS to make the wiki look more like the FSFE front page. If this is a goal, then what would be the best way of trying out those ideas? I currently use stylish, but that is a bit messy to debug.
Happy hacking! Florian
On 2016-03-01 07:56:18, Florian Snow wrote:
Thank you for that! I'm not trying to be picky, but is there are reason caretakers has been split into two words?
Well, I thought it's more Wiki-Wordy..-ish...
Please think of top level structures, categories and templates and
set
them up.
I'm happy to help with the migration, but I don't think we had enough time to think about appropriate structures yet. We're still in a phase of collecting ideas.
To be honest, your campaign came a little sudden to me. After the Wiki has degraded into such a bad shape over time I just started to take on the cleanup work on my own and you catched me when the stone was already rolling. Still in the right moment though.
By th way, I had an idea to edit the CSS to make the wiki look more like the FSFE front page. If this is a goal, then what would be the best way of trying out those ideas? I currently use stylish, but that is a bit messy to debug.
With your fellowship account you can check out https://svn.fsfe.org/external-web/style_wiki.fsfe.org/
So far I've been very careful not to make the style dependent on any JavaScript, to override the python-based html-templates as little as possible, and to not use any extensive style libraries. I'm still updating the style occasionally, when I notice things that look odd (probably going to happen with image and calendar pages)
Hi,
Paul Hänsch paul@fsfe.org, Tuesday, 1 March 2016, 13:27:12 CET:
Well, I thought it's more Wiki-Wordy..-ish...
I guess if you prefer that spelling, it's ok. It's a minor detail anyway.
To be honest, your campaign came a little sudden to me.
I'm sorry we surprised you like that. I had heard you were working on an update to either the design or the software, but I didn't know you were working on reorganizing the content. Had I known that, I would have contacted you directly first.
I like your suggestion in one of your other mails to not import categories at this point, but to instead import all pages to a category that essentially says "Fixme". That way, the new wiki would still be usable, but we could easily see which parts still need editing.
In the meantime, I will collect some sensible categories.
In your other mail, you also mentioned naming conventions as in "Category/Sausage and Category/Vegetable". Am I right in assuming that this is where the category page itself would be found? So I would put "CategoryVegetable" on a page to assign it to the category "vegetable", but if I want to call the category itself (for an overview of all pages in that category, for example), I would go to "Category/Vegetable"? Just checking because in the old wiki and in the draft set of standards, it says every category has to start with the word "Category".
Happy hacking! Florian
On 2016-03-01 18:52, Florian Snow wrote:
In your other mail, you also mentioned naming conventions as in "Category/Sausage and Category/Vegetable". Am I right in assuming that this is where the category page itself would be found?
A category name and the category page are the same thing in moin wiki. In order to have the categroy pages all in a subfolder I had to introduce the slash '/' into the name. This means when marking a page as belonging to a category, you will have to use the slash too. It is part of the actual name. The same goes for Group/, and Template/.
Just checking because in the old wiki and in the draft set of standards, it says every category has to start with the word "Category".
The default moin wiki configuration has, as you describe, all categroies at top level and starting with this name. In our setup it was necessary to change this behavour in ragrds to group pages, because as it is we have some awkward name space collisions between MoinWiki permission groups and Fellowship Groups which coincidentally happen to be named in the same fashion.
To be consistent I adopted the naming convention for Categories and Templates as well. I'll see that this gets documented on the WikiAdmin page, unless someone else is quicker ;-)
On 02/29/2016 09:05 AM, Florian Snow wrote:
Hello everyone,
In order to have email notifications, we moved the organization of that team to the wiki [1]. If you already sent me an email about wanting to help, please go to the wiki and add your name to the list of participants. I am not comfortable sharing your name publicly, which is why I'm asking you to add your name yourself.
[1] https://wiki.fsfe.org/WikiCaretakers
Happy hacking! Florian
Hi Florian,
I almost missed this mail. Count me in!
I have changed the wiki page.
Best regards, Thomas
Hello everyone,
For those of you who want to help: If you want updates on the wiki, it might be a good idea to subscribe to the Caretakers pages by using the following regex:
WikiCaretakers.*
You can simply paste this into your notification settings to be subscribed to all subpages as well.
Happy hacking! Florian
* Florian Snow floriansnow@fsfe.org [2016-03-01 19:02:38 +0100]:
For those of you who want to help: If you want updates on the wiki, it might be a good idea to subscribe to the Caretakers pages by using the following regex:
What I did in the past was to subscribe to the RSS feed about changes in the wiki.
The new one is: https://wiki-test.fsfe.org/RecentChanges?action=rss_rc&diffs=1&uniqu...
The old one: http://wiki.fsfe.org/RecentChanges?action=rss_rc&diffs=1&unique=0
Regards, Matthias
On Wed, Mar 02, 2016 at 11:44:36AM +0100, Matthias Kirschner wrote:
- Florian Snow floriansnow@fsfe.org [2016-03-01 19:02:38 +0100]:
For those of you who want to help: If you want updates on the wiki, it might be a good idea to subscribe to the Caretakers pages by using the following regex:
What I did in the past was to subscribe to the RSS feed about changes in the wiki.
The new one is: https://wiki-test.fsfe.org/RecentChanges?action=rss_rc&diffs=1&uniqu...
The old one: http://wiki.fsfe.org/RecentChanges?action=rss_rc&diffs=1&unique=0
it is also possible to subscribe to specific pages using [0]. this way, one can filter what you want to see.
also, since it uses you user, you will see everything you have access to, not only the public pages.
regards, albert
PS: you can use wildcards and recursion to specify what you want to subscribe to as some of you might have guessed from notifications when editing wiki pages in the past :)
[0] https://wiki.fsfe.org/FSFE%20Fellowship%20Wiki?action=userprefs&sub=notification
Hi Matthias,
Matthias Kirschner mk@fsfe.org writes:
What I did in the past was to subscribe to the RSS feed about changes in the wiki.
I guess my mail was a bit confusing. I meant subscribing to updates about the Wiki Caretakers team. For monitoring all changes, your solution is much better, especially because it doesn't cause inbox overload. :-)
Happy hacking! Florian