On Thu, 2007-11-22 at 15:28 +0000, MJ Ray wrote:
simo simo.sorce@xsec.it wrote:
Of course any requirements can be spelt as a restriction from the point of view of the distributor, but the point of view of the GPL is to protect *user*'s freedom not distributors freedom.
User and distributor are not two distinct or identical groups with free software.
And how that matters?
If I own a shop, and but from my own shop, does it matter if I own it? Consumer, tax and other laws apply even to what I sell myself in that case. Both and separately as a consumer and as a vendor. When you talk legal matter the role you play is important.
When you tal 4 freedoms the recipient is important. The role of distributor has to obey the requirements. The users enjoys the freedoms.
The distinction is all there in the license in any part of it.
[...]
Mj Ray is playing rhetorical tricks here. Nothing more effective that someone bitter that try to find faults at all costs and is confrontational.
Simo is playing the man, not the ball here.
But then, I am a bit bitter that FSF's hypocrisy in updating their basic texts to match their leaders' actions isn't more widely-known when me and my projects get such a bad press from FSF supporters.
I play man, and you? You keep trying to find FSF at fault, you are biased, and you do not recognized humans can commit errors. The FSF is made of humans not machines. That said I never found the FSF betray the core values or change "the scriptures" to match leaders positions. I see that only in the words of their detractors.
What long-time supporter wouldn't get a bit fed up with the original proponent endlessly rewriting its own core beliefs? How can we build stable shared alliances if the common ground keeps getting moved without agreement?
Only a person that believe in a slightly different set of core values can think that FSF core values change. You think you "know" perfectly what are the core values, and as soon as your very strict expectations do not match reality you blame the FSF for shifting. Many do this in fact. But many others don't see this shift, so you are either claiming that *you* are the holder of the truth or that these other people are part of a conspiracy to change FSF core values. I don't believe in large scale conspiracies, so I think you have to think harder, because IMO you are at fault here.
I don't mean to be confrontational, but sometimes I'm at a loss of any other way to highlight FSF use of tactics like lock-out, ret-con, hair-splitting, and so on.
Hope that explains,
No need to explain, this was evident. Unfortunately, nobody can change your beliefs, because beliefs are not facts. It's like religion and sects, every single one think *they* own the *truth* and the others are shifting the core values because they were lured by the devil, Clear tracts of radicalism and extremism, luckily they seldom win.
Simo.