On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 12:16 +0000, MJ Ray wrote:
simo simo.sorce@xsec.it [the comments tool]
But the tool is very powerful and, more important, useful and usable.
I'll have to take your word for that, seeing as I can't use it!
What browser are you using? Did you inform the webmaster? Did you submit bug report? Your help would be appreciated.
To be clearer: I think FSFE members spoke at about 30 events in 2005. GNU speakers (mostly RMS) seem to do a similar number. Not all of those would be appropriate opportunities, but there would be plenty to introduce GPLv3 to many interested people.
We all in FSFs will definitely do this.
Sticking "International" in a conference title and expecting people to dump exhaust fumes into the upper atmosphere in winter (and it's not fun to do much else from Europe at this time of year) is not very good. This is why a multi-site intro is a very good idea.
Please then help raise funds to support translations. At the moment FSF staff is already working 200% over-time to improve the site and make it useful. Managing translation falls shortly after 'expanding support to other browsers than FF'.
I think most hackers and users are more familiar with bug trackers than with caucuses. We have a large problem with growing cynicism and falling participation in political processes, while "bazaar" software development seems to be growing, yet FSF looks like it modelled GPLv3 discussion on the declining political processes!
GPLv3 is not only for hackers. It is also for lawyers, public administration, civil servants, businesses, engineers. Therefore the tool tries to take into consideration many many factors, needs and requests. If you have suggestions on /how/ to better manage the process then please submit them, trying to avoid the words 'democratic' and 'open', supplying real use case scenarios as I don't seem to understand your point.
Then please point me the literature where 'growing bazaar style development' is growing, because I see pretty vertical organizations dealing with very large free sw contributions (Eclipse, the whole Apache software, OpenSolaris, OpenOffice.org). I would like to know more about this topic.
Are you saying committees will not be deciding which issues are Major, Minor or dismissed?
Committees will help FSF:
4.2 Issue Resolution Each issue identified in the course of public participation can be resolved in one of four ways: by modification of the license draft, by alteration of descriptive material, by advice concerning the use of the license, or an issue may not require any change. Discussion Committees will characterize issues as Major or Minor. Major issues will be placed on the agenda of all other Discussion Committees and, until resolved, may be placed on the agenda for successive International meetings. All issues unresolved at the end of each drafting stage will be carried over for discussion and resolution during the next discussion stage. All issues not resolved before the issuance of the last discussion draft will be finally determined by the Free Software Foundation at the close of the last call period. All Major issues resolved by the Foundation will be described by a written opinion, publicly available, at GPLv3.fsf.org.
If you want to be in a committee you should ask FSF for an invitation.
Discussion Committees A-E can work in secret if they wish and nothing appears to republicise the process later.
Where is step c "posts issues on the same page" documented? That looks like new data to me. There seemed no requirement for steps b-d to be public. Your description contradicts http://gplv3.fsf.org/process-definition#SECTION00610000000000000000
- does it need updating?
Probably it needs better wordings. Simo has put it the way I understood section 4.1 of the process definition and the way I have heard the process described by Moglen in Boston.
FSF has also locked out many free software users by siting the only public event so far in the USA and by requiring a particular browser. Most foreign users of lynx, w3m, links and much other free software need not apply, or can email and pray.
Oh, come on: look at web site statistics and you will realize that the users of text-only browsers are a very little percentage. And in any case, thinking of those like rms that don't use X, FSF provided the email interface.
The first event took place in Boston for practical and symbolic reasons: practical because organizing in any other place would have costed too much for coordination from FSF. Symbolic because GPLv2 was developed in Boston, with rms working at MIT, therefore the choice of the venue.
Yes, rms apologised for choosing to host the conference in USA, because some decided not to travel there to protest against US government. There will be at least a conference in Europe and in Latin America, be assured.
An open and transparent process with well-understood process and audit trails on all public submissions until the final reckoning. A tin-pot town council can manage it: why not FSF?
Because the scope of a town council and that of a corporation like FSF are totally different? FSF has a manifesto and the responsibility of copyright assignments from hundreds of people. FSF cannot give up completely to this kind of democracy.
- migrate the fancy web comments to an open bug tracker with BTS proxies and helpers on-call for those who need them,
I won't comment on the choice of the tool as they all have drawbacks and advantages. In any case changing the tool now is out of question.
- replace Discussion Committees A-E with geographic forums (mainly because cultures and time zones make that grouping as practical as anything else),
Geographic or other criteria are all equally opinable.
- prepare and dispatch GPLv3 briefing packs to all speakers,
This is done already.
- organise and call GPLv3 meetings at events,
This is being prepared. There is already one date almost fixed and you will see communication in this list within few days.
- make people and materials available to local user groups, law libraries and whoever else you think is relevant, and
Lawyers are being called to participate to the process. Committees C has many from few countries. I you have names to suggest please do: write to Moglen and Peter Brown.
Local groups should ask what information they need more than those provided on the site, probably also they should help raise funds to organize local GPLv3 conferences and have FSF speakers.
- issue calls for participation by non-big-business groups such as free software projects, cooperatives, charities, governments and civil society.
That was done already. But, again, if you feel someone important was left out it was only because FSF is not the Almighty and doesn't know everybody on the planet: let FSF know who should participate in the Committees. There is no reason why FSF would not want more members.
I hope I have answered your concerns. /stef